Muriel Penico. “Let’s not give up until the full equality of women and men.”

He is known for the fact that he was the Minister of Labor in the government of Edward Philip. Less for his activity as a photographer. However, at the age of 68, Muriel Penicault recently completed an exhibition on earth, sky and women at the Collège Bernardin in the 5th arrondissement of Paris. At the inauguration in early February, the woman, who received her first camera at age 11, a black-and-white Polaroid, said she had “crazy stage fright.” “We all have a sensitive part in us, it is very important to understand life. And today it is very important to share it,” says the former minister through the Zoom screen. “In recent years, I have been engaged in photography, but under the bush. Now I want to be completely myself. It’s also a way to show that we can have multiple lives and that they all feed off each other.”

This life of a photographer will surprise more than one, because Muriel Penico is best known to the public for holding management positions in large companies (Dassault Systèmes, Danone) and for being the Minister of Labor from 2017 to 2020. From the Rue de Grenelle, he launched the Pénicaud Index, a tool that asks companies to measure themselves in terms of occupational equality. Muriel Penico returns to this index, which celebrated its 5th anniversary on March 1st and whose 2023 results have just been published. Interview:

Madame Figaro .- You launched the professional equality index in 2018. Today, five years later, what do you think of it?
Muriel Penico: It had been 46 years since the law said. Without respecting “equal pay for equal work”, things progressed very slowly. With this indicator, from now on, there is an obligation of results for companies in terms of equality. This tool not only allows to measure the equality of women and men in the same society, but also serves as a control. The average went from 84 to 88 in four years. It’s an improvement, but it’s just the beginning. Actual parity is set at 100/100 points. Only 2% of companies achieve this figure today. So they still have a lot of progress to make. If the company has a score below 75/100, it must take urgent measures. Otherwise, financial sanctions (Up to 1% of salary, editor’s note) can be imposed on him. After looking back four years, 2019 served as a partial test, we can welcome the dynamic and welcome the awareness of the companies and their initial progress. In fact, most of them did not realize that they were discriminating against their employees. We cannot fully resolve in 4 years inequalities that have lasted for 400 years or more. The obligation and impulse is there, but we must not let go, strengthen and accelerate.

How did you imagine this figure with social partners? Are you inspired by a specific model?
There was nothing before. A few companies had implemented “internal” metrics, but there were no common tools. To create it, we spent four months working on it not only with social partners, but also with the HCE (High Council for Equality between Women and Men), women’s networks in business, HR managers and parliamentarians. By the way, when I was a minister, all the number one social partners, employers and trade unions were men. So when I got them together, the scene was quite funny, although it was a matter of professional equality. But they all obliged. And their number two negotiators were women. Nevertheless, at the end of these 4 months of consultations, we decided to define 5 evaluation criteria. So, I know there are criticisms or reservations that the Index does not go far enough, does not analyze inequalities in detail. But we wanted to keep this tool simple so that SMEs, management committees, and PMOs can use it to take action. And today it is clear that France was a pioneer in this field. Europe was inspired by our index to create a directive on equal pay. Now that it is well established, we will be able to go further and “scale up” for example part-time women’s wages (which are now integrated into the calculation of full-time equivalents). Let’s improve the tool, but not break the thermometer, otherwise the dynamics of progress will decrease.

What may be surprising when looking at the Index’s criteria is that one of them takes into account the increase in the number of women returning from maternity leave. However, this is an obligation arising from the 2006
True, this was one of the questions we asked ourselves during the working group in 2018. Colleagues around the table said that this provision was not respected at all. On a logical level, it seems patently absurd to put something into law that requires respect for the law. But here we wanted to take a pragmatic approach, saying that we “made sure” that this was not respected, and we must ensure that it is so. It worked.

So far, the overall ranking of companies is improving year on year, but disparities persist, especially in terms of pay and career progression. What’s still blocking?
This is blocking for several reasons. First of all, it is a matter of collective thinking. Many companies hold this preconceived notion that women will be absent on maternity leave and that when they have children, they will be less committed and less available. So, is it worth giving him a promotion? This type of reasoning seems antiquated, but it persists. The OECD has also shown this. when the first child arrives, women’s careers take off, while men’s careers begin to accelerate. At 2, it stops for women and speeds up more and more for men. With the 3rd child it is a disaster. In four years, companies have had time to implement the HR and management strategies needed to advance women’s careers and wages. It is a matter of fairness, but also an obvious benefit of economic activity. Therefore, we have to raise the level of demands. I recommend that the minimum sanctioning point should now be 85 instead of 75. Then we will move to another level. Let’s not give up until full equality of women and men.