Agnes Jaoui. “When I was in the shadow of Jean-Pierre Bakry, he suffered more than me”

On February 23, before presenting him with an honorary César, Jamel Debuz paid tribute to him, saying how much he “raised him, in the truest sense of the word”; I was much smaller than that. I was one meter away from meeting him.” Regardless of our size, heels included or not, Agnes Jaoui also gave us all a little lift. Drawing, through films co-written with Jean-Pierre Bakry, made alone or even with her roles, portraits of imperfect and lovable women, clumsy and independent, whose qualities as flaws were highlighted with the same smirk. And whose weaknesses were never used at their expense, even more so, mocked.

This is how she plays Judith, a woman suffering from manic-depressive disorders My mother’s life, Julien Carpentier’s first film. Able to cook couscous for twelve people on a whim, or sink into the abyss of depression or alcoholism that could endanger her, Judith lives in a specialized institution. From which she escapes one fine day to join her son Pierre (William LeBille), a florist whose professional and emotional life may finally be on the upswing. Would it not be the (invasive) presence of his mother with whom he finds himself constrained and forced into the journey? In this film, which delicately and humorously highlights the impact of mental disorders on those who suffer from them and those around them, Agnes Jauy portrays Judith in all her states, lost in a highway rest area, as if she were rapt in a karaoke bar. without falling into melodrama or excess. A subtlety, the secret of which he has and which continues to “lift” us.

Madame Figaro: What attracted you? My mother’s life ?

Agnes Jaoui: I was attracted by the fact that we understood a lot. I liked the great accuracy of what was described about this flawed mother and the collateral damage she caused. We clearly see the powerlessness to help, to live next to someone suffering from these disorders. And I also liked that we understand that my character is not doing this on purpose, that it is a disease.

How did you come to feel close to him?

There are people who are quite modest, I am not. I don’t think I’m manic-depressive, but I think I have a pretty good idea of ​​what it is. In any case, I can go from euphoria to despair in the same hour, sometimes even in the same minute. All this is not alien to me. I also have friends, especially a very dear friend, who suffers from it deeply, clinically. obviously I thought about him a lot when playing the role. This has always been my modus operandi, to make the characters my own, to protect them from within. Of course, these are great roles for the actress, because the palette is very wide. There are also pitfalls, such as “drunk” scenes, we can fall into caricature. But I knew that Julien Carpentier knew the subject well. We talked about it a lot, we watched movies together. And I offered him more or less extroverted options for him to choose between.

What are these movies that inspired you?

A woman under the influence, Crazy life, The IntraquillesOr Mad with joy.

Mental health is a timeless topic, but he takes center stage in fiction, as in public space, because speech has been freed around it. Have you always been sensitive to it?

This is a topic I have been familiar with for a long time for personal reasons. But it’s also because I’ve gotten older, more mature, and more experienced that I’ve come to understand more about mental illness. I am the daughter of a psychologist (his mother Gisa Jawi was a psychoanalyst, editor’s note) I’ve been a bit “all psycho” up until now and I still think therapy has huge merit. But I also recognize the importance of internal chemistry, of the brain. It’s fascinating, and we’re beginning to understand how this all relates to psychoanalysis. Obviously, it is very good that everyone is talking about it, that we are more daring. At the risk of everyone thinking they’re bipolar or narcissistic perverts or allergic to gluten. There is also a kind of fashion, but it is not important.

The character you played We know the song (by Alain René, released in 1997, co-authored by Agnes Jaoui and Jean-Pierre Bakry), was a young doctoral student suffering from depression. However, he did not fall into the clichés we associate with this disease, hysteria or apathy. Does this “size” matter to you?

He was a spasmophile, but yes, there was a collapse in him. It is true that we have misconceptions about this topic. People say: “No, I don’t want therapy because I’m not crazy.” Meanwhile, precisely because we are not crazy, we go to therapy.

It’s because we’re not crazy that we go to therapy.

Agnes Jauy

In My mother’s life we feel a real complicity between you and William LeBhill, who plays your son.

Yes, completely. Before filming, we started with readings and very quickly felt that we were laughing at the same things, that we were on the same wavelength. William, as well as Julien, are men who have an infinitely refined masculinity, which is very pleasing. I have the impression that we live in the same country.

You play the role of a mother who has to let go of her son, “freeing” him to grow up. This is a theme that has also been found The last of the Jews by Noé Debré, released in January. How does this topic resonate with you?

It is very interesting for me to express the complexity of being a mother. There is such a myth as the “good mother”… Despite all the advances, all the liberation of women, we retain this image of the perfect, sacrificial mother, this idea of ​​a testimony of maternal love. It remains one of the taboo subjects that continues to weigh heavily on our shoulders and that of our children. It’s also important to show mothers who are like all of us. we try and we don’t always succeed. Mothers are women first and foremost, people trying to do the best where they are, with their lives and their abilities.

My mother’s life it’s not just your personality that brings this feature. We feel that there is a whole existence behind motherhood and illness.

Yes, moreover, she insists that she has a sexual life, she is still a woman.

It’s also important to show mothers who are like all of us. we try and we don’t always succeed.

“Still” being a woman. At the age of 59, is this a theme that is important to you to highlight through your films? Or is this self-explanatory?

Of course, but it is true, sometimes I get roles where I feel that I am no longer “only” a mother… Or now, a grandmother. Turning it into a function “annoys” me, I don’t see the point. In the same way, being just a “sling” or a wife waiting for her husband who is never there… Help. Anytime a character is one dimensional it’s annoying. So I just say no.

Abandoning these roles also allows future generations to offer new representations of women. Which characters have had the most influence on you?

I remember Thelma and Louise which had a great influence on me.

Do you identify with Thelma or Louise?

To the killer. It’s not that I want to kill anyone, but I liked the one who is the most rock and roll. I think it’s Louise, played by Susan Sarandon, even though they’re both in the mail. I remember this movie session very well. I was a young girl, I went there in a very classic dress found at a flea market. When I left the show I wore jeans, boots and a cropped t-shirt. I remember too Baghdad Cafe, because the character of the German tourist (performed by Marianne Sägebrecht, editor’s note) was fat and that she took responsibility that she was beautiful and that people thought she was beautiful. And Jenna Rowlands too, a lot.

On February 23, you received a Caesar honor What is the first image that comes to mind when you remember this moment?

Right there, that’s Jamel. I see Jamel with his emotional face, who later told me that it was the hardest thing he had to do in his life. What do I want to believe? I know we were both happy, while I know it was a test for both of us.

For what ?

Because we were thinking about Jean-Pierre (Bakri, disappeared in 2021, editor’s note.) A lot. And that he was there.

HAS We know about him the work of the duo “Bacri-Jaoui” as a screenwriter, but you also shined each on your own. Together, have you made a conscious effort to never allow yourself to get “locked into” the image that your relationship represented? How did it go between you?

It happened because he was, because I was… Obviously, in the beginning we talked about his films, his plays, above all. Even when we were writing together, I was overshadowed because he was more famous, older, and just more “manly.” But he suffered from it, almost more than I did. Later, apart from the fact that he did not want to be a director anyway, he was very happy that I was in the center of attention. He was someone who did not like to have the first role, the leadership. Being “the man”… He didn’t have that ego at all, that made it a lot easier. And then, we also had territories that were just ours. For me it was singing. Jean-Pierre loved music, but not so much the music I was doing. I also think we were happy to give ourselves the freedom to do whatever we wanted. If everyone can understand that loving is not possessing and that no one owns the other, it will help a lot.