Norma: “We can’t make fun of incest, but we can laugh at it”

Norma is this young woman who in Silence so loudThe documentary on the incest of Emmanuel Beart and Anastasia Mikova, broadcast on M6 on September 24, is one of the victims. From 3 to 12 years old, she was raped by her grandmother’s husband. But Norma is also a 31-year-old young woman who enjoys walks in the woods with her dog, cappuccinos, comedians Hannah Gatsby and Blanche Gardin. And who turned his story into a stand-up show, Normal.

Every Wednesday at the Théâtre du Marais in Paris, he tells the story of the violence of aggression and its consequences, of trauma and endurance, with as much clarity as it does mockery. This is the first time he would like to happen on “K. Maro or L5. Not back Scan in the background…”; these “cigars, tears and music” moments where we surprise ourselves in depression by imagining ourselves in a sublime auteur film. This body she had been hiding with harem pants for a long time before accepting it. On stage, Norma pulls off a feat of making people laugh, move and alert without coming across as provocative or disturbing. “I think we’ve been hit enough in life to get hit paying for a show,” he explains in the cafe where we meet him one September morning. It remains that we go out Normal shocked, delighted and wide-eyed.

The power of laughter

Madame Figaro: Can we really laugh at that?incest ?
Norma: Yes, I think. I guess we can’t make fun of it, but we can laugh at it. On the other hand, you really have to be careful how you laugh at it. A joke to someone who hasn’t experienced it can be a terrible “no joke” to the victim. But with tact, we can laugh at anything.

Why did you decide to tell your story through a stand-up show?
I chose the form before the story. I have always dreamed of being a comedian since I was a child. There’s something I found maddeningly, quite enjoyable about laughing and making others laugh. I wanted to write a comedy show. as I explained that I had had a very eventful life, my director, Coralie Lascu, offered to tell me why. I didn’t think I could make a show about incest. it’s hyper-intimate, I thought it would piss people off, and most of all I feared it was pathos. Then I thought and realized that it is important to give the reason for all this. And I myself was surprised by the topic of my show.

Were you also surprised to discover that incest can make you laugh?
I wasn’t surprised to make people laugh because that’s my job. Humor is a bit of a science: when I was writing a program, I put everything in such a way that it would cause laughter. But I was surprised that it was so good for people other than making them laugh. The girls complained and even allowed themselves to talk about it with their family or friends. This is the magic of liberating speech. often it touches many people.

To the light

From the beginning of the show, we hear voices saying that this is too far, that we can’t laugh at incest. How did you overcome these objections?
I hate being told what to do in life in general, especially by women. we’re in the process of moving away from all kinds of patriarchal fiction, so I don’t really want other women telling me what. I have to do for the next 60 years. Somewhat extreme feminists sent me messages saying that laughing at incest was an insult to the victims, that I couldn’t feel so serious if I could do it. Comments men might have made thirty years ago. But I wanted to reassure everyone that we had the right to do whatever we wanted with our drama. I don’t believe that humor makes light of the subject, nor that we come away saying “well, actually, rape is nothing.” Incest is horrible no matter how you deal with it, but I believe people will be allowed to get past it. And laughter allows you to overcome everything.

For me, the show is obviously about incest, but above all, about getting out of your own situation and looking for a little more light.

Norma

But isn’t laughter as catharsis a bit of a cliché?
Yeah, it wasn’t the show that took care of me, it was because I took care of myself that I was able to do the show. We need to stop with this idea that free speech is healing. No. therapeutic work leads to the possible liberation of speech and again; the effect can be so strong and violent that there are women who, despite their daily work, will never allow themselves to talk about it.

In Normal You also discuss topics such as ecology, therapy, male/female relationships that your audience can identify with. Have you consciously worked on this aspect?
No, I don’t think so. There are many things in my life besides incest. I’m also a 31 year old woman, I’m talking about what I’m going through. Whether we’re recovering from our parents’ divorce or incest, we’re all striving to get better and free ourselves from what made us. For me, the show is obviously about incest, but above all about getting out of your own situation and looking for a little more light. It is universal.

Liberation

On stage, you gradually remove several layers of clothing. Why this choice of staging?
It took me a very long time to dress as a woman, it gave me crazy anxiety about being desirable. On the stage, it was important to show this woman who tries to touch her desirability, her femininity at all costs. When I started writing this show, I was hooked. And today I am in front of you with cleavage and tight pants. I wanted to depict the fact of becoming lighter, becoming better and better, revealing itself, ceasing to hide.

The hardest part of the show is when I impersonate my attacker

Norma

The show also touches on issues of sexuality that go beyond incest.
I think that’s what I’m most proud of. There is an idea according to which we, the victims of incest, do not have sexuality, or at least we are not classical, because we have been traumatized… But rape is not sex. We have the right to explore sexuality because we haven’t done it with rape. we were attacked, it doesn’t matter. I wanted to say that I was very afraid of sexuality, but to show that I can enjoy myself, make love, and that I don’t need to turn off the light. There’s a moment when we turn the light back on, and it’s nice to express that.

One of the show’s strongest moments is when you imitate your attacker. How did you come up with this idea?
We always talk about attackers, but we never see them. On television they are blurred, and in movies we often don’t see their faces. My grandfather does not represent all abusers, but I wanted to show one to say: “This is how he works. Perhaps beware of this kind of gentle man, sometimes very rude, sometimes disobedient, then gentle again.’ Perhaps this is the only time when I took care of myself on stage. I wanted to make him angry. But this is the most difficult moment to play. If I’m having a good day, it’s good. But there are times when it doesn’t make me laugh. Or I say to myself while playing.

Question justice

You are already working on a new show that will focus on justice.
Yes, I am in the very first stage of writing. The 2nd step of my endurance was to file a complaint, to face justice (In 2018, Norma’s attacker was found guilty and sentenced to six months in prison and €100,000 in damages, editor’s note). And I found the way they treated me disastrous. I was the first to perform psychiatric analyses. I was the one they listened to hours before my grandfather. I faced these experts, policemen, doctors who suspected me, and it was extremely violent. Fortunately, I had done a great deal of therapeutic work; I think a less anchored person might doubt or refuse. Or at least he won’t dare to tell exactly what happened to him.

You have received compensation for showing the show.
Yes, I wanted this money back to work. I especially did not want to buy a house or a car with it. Which doesn’t make sense because I’m not rich and I come from a family that isn’t rich either. Maybe I should have been less “esoteric” in my money management. But I don’t regret anything.