Secrets of spies. “The goal is to approach someone interesting, find their loophole and slip away”

There is something intriguing about him. After working in the world of business lawyers, then in the European Parliament, under the direction of an international foundation that took him from Vietnam to Colombia, this doll-faced, big-eyed, long-haired Air Force Reserve colonel. and high cheekbones, fascinated by defense problems, resumed her studies at the National Defense Advanced Research Institute before being named godmother of the Foreign Legion (the first since 1943), life. For his second book, he paints a portrait of six great spies of our time, and we inevitably wonder: wouldn’t he be like that himself? Interview:

Madame Figaro. – Then female warriors You dedicate your latest work to female secret agents. Is it out of a desire to highlight actors, or are you just more attracted to women’s careers?
Marie-Laure Busson. –In general, and since childhood, I have been very fascinated by people who say to themselves: Men and women, somehow. But I also like to paint portraits and, in order to do so, put myself in the shoes of those I meet. I find every time that these extraordinary women have emotions like me, moments when the urge to cry is as strong as I am. I don’t like titan heroines. I think it’s because when you’re a woman, you’re never cut off from reality. One of the spies I met for this book told me about the day he was in Afghanistan, meters away from the Taliban, when he got a worried call from the school. In fact, his son had bitten a child in the yard in Paris… No matter what you do, even if it is hunting North Korean missiles, your life catches up with you. In the case of women fighters or agents of DGSE and DGSI, whatever they do, they do without expecting anything – no backlash, no public recognition. Their work takes place in the shadows and they cannot talk about it. It is even more virtuous.

How do you get them to talk to you when they value privacy above all else?
When I approached French Services to interview some of their agents, I was immediately flush with cash. I told them. “Obviously you’re going to investigate me, don’t hesitate, call so-and-so and so-and-so.” Being very involved in military circles, a colonel in the Air Force Reserve, it was easy to see if I was trustworthy. And yet, despite my unattractive profile, it took over a year to open the door. On the other hand, the day it happens, when the Ministry of Armed Forces calls you, you better be available and on time. (Laughs).

In your introduction, you evoke the myth of the seductive spy, which you later deconstruct. where does it come from?
A number of historical profiles contributed to this. In fact, it’s not at all stupid when one has a cabaret dancer surrounded by feathers and hangs out every night with Gestapo personnel to say to oneself: “I’m going to put this girl to work!” to glean very important information.” I’m thinking of Josephine Baker, of course. This charming side of the woman, which gave her a strategic place in intelligence, was then heavily exploited by Hollywood. Angelina Jolie as a killer in a cut-out dress Sir and Mrs. Smith This is just one example among many… That being said, those I have met are nothing short of intelligent in the noblest sense of the word. They have a Navigo pass, a photo of their kids as phone wallpaper, they actually look like us. They just do extraordinary things like setting traps for jihadist criminals, reading and discussing the Quran, detecting money laundering operations, taking DNA samples from corpses, even carrying out targeted killings if the cause seems right to them, and no one ever would. know!

Do these spies today, from different countries and cultures (you draw a profile of a North Korean, an Israeli, etc.), have anything in common?
There is nothing fancy about them, they are neither chatty nor excited (contrary to the cliche in our minds). Very calm, on the contrary, they show great psychological subtlety. we feel that they very quickly calibrate their interlocutor, which is necessary for recruiting sources in the core of their profession. First of all, let me say that they are not terrible. There is no roughness, there is no corner. They will not suspect whomever they approach, that is their strength.

I don’t like titan heroines.

Marie-Laure Busson

In your book, we feel that this issue of trust is central…
It’s important, yes… You need to get your source to agree with you, then get them to talk, talk, talk, until the day you say, “I can help you.” The goal is to approach someone interesting, find their weakness and stumble into it. Generally, this drawback is either money, ego (lack of recognition), or fear of a scandal that might break out. Even if the French are not very sensitive to this last lever. France enjoys such an extraordinary image abroad, it is the country of human rights. In the process of building military arsenals, we can improve the living conditions of those living under dictatorship… The people we approach are not always happy in their country, and we explain to them that we may be able to send their children to the Sorbonne or their to take care of someone in the family; it is much more powerful than a genital tape ! In general, therefore, we operate less on coercion than on trust.

Unlike other countries…
Yes, the Russians, for example, are playing on our title compromised (compromising documents that may harm a person, Editor’s Note) One of the agents in this area told me that when he trained spies like him, he told them: D will approach you with a cup. Maybe it’s a wolf.” To return to the peculiarities of women, I think that in this matter they are less likely to be deceived by the ego than men.

Last August, when several Russian spies were released, the whole world was shocked to see that a woman had lied to her own children about their nationalities. Did this surprise you?
No way. There are so many preconceived ideas behind the image of the mother, it is still very powerful, more powerful than anything.

Always, no matter what you do, even if you’re hunting North Korean missiles, your life will catch up with you.

Marie-Laure Busson

Did these spies you met change something in you?
Through their story, I realized that often the future of a country hangs in the balance. And this subject, it is not rare that he is a smart spy. One of them told me that he once found himself in a “really not beautiful” country, but by certain standards. One day, he learned that a source he had worked with for three years was going to leave at the request of his home country, which was producing weapons extremely harmful to France’s national interests. Then the man says: “It’s scary because I won’t be able to give Nutella to my daughter anymore.” This Nutella represented to him a happy lifestyle and consumption, in contrast to the country he was about to return to, where nothing was to be found… He was handed its boxes, she gave him the plans. of the weapons factory he sought and needed. I didn’t tell this story in the book because I thought people wouldn’t believe me.

You never thought of becoming a spy yourself ?
Joker!