Pascal Clerk, geographer. “Apart from materials and more sockets for computers, we still think of schools as in the 19th century.”

Madame Figaro. – We rarely think of school as a geographical location. For what?
Pascal Clerk.– In general representations, geography is the study of large spaces, region, country, continent. Microgeography, or the geography of small spaces, remains underdeveloped. However, it makes it possible to analyze the spatial organization of structures such as refugee camps, beaches or even benches on the street. It’s true, we rarely perceive schools as our own space. My approach is to enter into their materiality through borders, boundaries, transitions, to study children’s spatial practice and therefore to cast a geographical look at educational issues.

Does the school model in this exercise seem outdated to you?
The school, as we know it, was gradually established from the 16th century^e century, according to sociologist Guy Vincent. It consisted of individuals grouped by age group in separate locations around the triad of reading, learning and numeracy. This was in line with the need when it came to nation building. This model of knowledge transfer continues today. But he seems a bit exhausted to me. We could envision an educational model that focuses more on the learning of individuals than on the teachings of a teacher.

French schools are often accused of reinforcing social inequality. Finally, is it a combination of uneven areas?
Numerous studies show that the French education system deepens inequalities. Developing a form of social diversity in schools is quite complex. We want the school card, but for others. The problem in my eyes is first of all the illusion of national education. There is a semblance of uniformity in the schools: the same administrative organization, the timetable with the same number of hours per subject, etc. All this is standardized. But the reality on the ground is completely different. contrary to what we might imagine, institutions in working-class neighborhoods that face more difficulties are underfunded than others, if only because the most graduates and the most experienced (and therefore the best-paid). ) to teach at the Henri-IV secondary school in Paris rather than at suburban colleges. And the choice of options also varies greatly depending on the educational institution, which plays a big role.

Is the school living in a bubble today?
For a long time, there was the idea that appearance is a hindrance. Therefore, we built the schools like republican monasteries, cut off from the outside, so as not to distract the attention of the students. Today we have to think of it as a network, and in any case, the power of the Internet forces us to do so. There are innovative schools, I’m thinking for example of this place, Le Blé en herbe, in Trebedan, Cote d’Armor, redesigned by the designer Matali Crasset. He wanted a kindergarten and primary school in a rural setting that was open to the world, transparent, and he envisioned common spaces that would facilitate intergenerational encounters between the elderly and students. It is the school’s understanding of its environment that benefits everyone.

How to anchor it more in society?
Among the skills of XXI^e century that UNESCO offers concepts such as collaborating, inventing, dialoguing, compromising, knowledge that today is worked on only after the basics. The digital problem changes everything. With online learning, the teacher’s role will increasingly be to help students learn. Changes in organization and practices are needed. Today, apart from materials and a few more sockets to plug in computers, we still think of schools as they did in the 19th century.^e century! However, if for some learning we need to be alone, for others we need to debate, five or six work together, be able to walk or be in motion to generate brain activity. However, in 2024, we mostly offer classroom layouts or classroom assembly in our schools. All of this, it seems to me, reflects a certain confusion on the part of the educational institution towards the student body. It’s hard to think about it. For another organization, two ways seem essential to me. First, do not forget that students spend a large number of hours in these places, and that we should not ignore what is related to these activities; rest, relax, move, eat, develop social relationships… Eating areas, less disturbing toilets and corridors are important.

For some learning, you need to be able to walk or move to trigger brain activity

Pascal Clerk

You mention the disappearance of the legendary stage.
Perhaps the infinity of online resources will force us to rethink this relationship. When I’m in front of my students, if I have data that’s a little out of date, they check and point it out to me right away. In addition to improving knowledge, this makes it possible to demystify learning and perhaps question the hierarchy that, in my eyes, is still too rigid between students and teachers.

And the issue of website security?
Safety, whether physical or psychological, is important. What I’m asking is the safe way to answer. We live in less and less violent societies, but we have the opposite feeling. Dramatic news causes political escalation, but building walls won’t change anything. If we consider the murder of Samuel Patty (October 16, 2020, Conflans-Sainte-Honorine, Yvelines, Editor’s note), it happened outside the institution. In certain situations, a more fluid relationship between the school and the parents, a simpler circulation between the outside and the inside, will make it possible to ease the tension. The managers of the facilities I interviewed felt that security measures (main gates, alarms, etc.) were not very useful. They want more human presence to monitor and keep students safe. An air conditioner will never replace a person who greets, greets, recognizes students and possibly reports a problem.

* matalicrasset.com/fr/projet/le-ble-en-herbe-trebedan